My fear with this environment is the lack of due process. ***Not that in ANY way do I support any of these people - because I DO NOT. * ** But what has happened is, in a race to appear as if Management actually cares about this issue, they are immediately terminating people. That's a dangerous precedent to set. Losing your livelihood shouldn't occur so easily. Like anything else, this gives people/victims power. Power to accuse. Which they deserve and need. But with that power comes the ability to end someone's career, that's a LOT of power. That accusation needs to be the BEGINNING of the process - not the end. That's all I'm saying. The accused does need to be immediately removed from a position where retaliation can take place, but that doesn't mean a presumption of guilt and termination are the knee jerk reaction.

There almost needs to be some legal process put into place, because based on history, management and HR departments NEED this 'guidance' because they have done such a completely $hitty job of handling it in the past. CONGRESS'S process is an example of what NOT to follow

1. You have 180 days to report the harassment.
2. You then must undertake 30 days of counseling (HUH????)
3. After that, you have 30 days to request arbitration - which takes ANOTHER 30 days.
   

That's a condensed version - but shows the lunacy of the policy nonetheless.

What we are seeing here is the pendulum swinging. And in recent months, it's swinging in the other direction.

Let me give you an example that I was involved in of a scenario where quick reactions could end up with innocent people being cut loose. Back in the early 1990's, I was running a business within a corporate structure. We had an Islamic employee who stated that with his previous boss, he had been discriminated against - and charges of sexual harassment had also been leveled against him. They transferred him to my division to give him a 'clean slate'. Now, i'll be clear, this guy was a Grade-1 A$$hole. But I had no choice but to take him. Of course, it took only a matter of weeks for him to get into trouble. I won't go into details, but at one point, when I wasn't there and my boss confronted him, he quit and walked out. Two weeks later we were sued via the EEOC, naming the company, my boss, and myself. We had 'discriminated against him because he was a Muslim" and fired him was the claim. This was BS, but still, a corporate attorney was flown in from Dallas. He interviewed every single person who reported to me, in order to find out if I was discriminating against anyone based on race, creed, or sex. This was an internal investigation, and, according to my people, the attorney asked very leading questions. Such as, had I ever used racial slurs, told racial or religious jokes, spoke in a sexual matter or made sexual advances (and he gave examples to make them "yes or no" answers). Well, when I found out , I freaked. Not because I had done ANY of those things, but because if ANYONE who worked under me had an ax to grind, they could have thrown me under the bus, and believe me, the company would have tossed me out the door. Fortunately, not a single person made a single accusation. But I worried because when I took over this division, I had cleaned house, and many people saw friends or co-workers be replaced (btw that's exactly why I was put there - because the place was bleeding money). One of my people actually said they laughed when asked the questions, and at the end of the week, the attorney stated he wished every case was this easily defended. The case was thrown out of the EEOC hearing. The guy had, among other things, stated he had requested certain times off during Ramadan, and that I had refused. The documentation showed that I not only accommodated him, but went out of my way to make sure his schedule was as easy for him to deal with because of the fasting aspect of Ramadan. The guy was eviscerated by the EEOC when he couldn't even answer the question of when Ramadan began or ended (it's different each year). The point here is, I'm not sure in today's environment there's even much of an investigation. There's a good shot I'd have just been fired based on the accusation alone.

There's plenty of cases where people's lives have been destroyed by false accusations. The Duke Lacross team, the University of Virginia fraternity rape case reported by Rolling Stone (completely made up) and I could list other examples. There can't be a rush to judgement with these cases. There needs to be strong repercussion for sexual harassment. And for companies that have systemic issues with harassment. But there has to be a Universal Due Process put into place that everyone must follow. And a large penalty for false accusations. Now, I don't want there to be a situation where "not enough evidence" becomes 'false accusation'. But if someone is shown to have deliberately made a false accusation against a co-worker or superior, that needs to be dealt with as harshly as actual harassment. Because for very selfish reasons, those people not only harm the wrongfully accused, they set back the cause of actual victims of sexual (and other forms) of harassment.

Right now, things are happening fast and furious. It doesn't take long in this atmosphere for a Drumhead to commence.

" it's starting to feel like anyone you ever winked at is a potential accuser."

Exactly. And I hear what you are saying about protecting the bottom line. But lack of due process leaves companies open to liability from the accused as well as accusers. Plus, most harassment cases take place with people the public never knows or hears about.

I just worry that the outing of what is clearly a toxic work environment for sexual harassment can spawn a toxic environment of a different sort. That's why I think a clear, universal due process, as well as a reporting mechanism, needs to be put in place.

At one company, I juggled 21 different clients/business models. One of them was managing, overseeing, and selling compliance lines and reporting for Fortune 500 companies regarding the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002 aka "Corporate and Auditing Accountability, Responsibility, and Transparency Act". This set up, among other things, anonymous hotlines for employees to call and report a variety of issues. So I have some experience in this area. That act scratches the surface of what actually needs to be regulated. Right now it's a Corporate free for all. And it's a mess.

Another good reason why I've always worked for smaller companies, usually a dozen people or less. And mostly on a contract/consulting basis.

And times sure do change. I was thinking this morning of the end of the movie Stripes, where they show (mostly) magazine covers of where the characters went next. For Ox, played by John Candy who was 30-31 at the time, it was Tiger Beat. A contest to "Win A Dream Date With Ox!" Tiger Beat is directed at adolescent girls.

And now Matt Lauer is gone. I can't help but notice the difference in coverage. When Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes went down, FOX NEWS was a 'haven for harassers' according to MSNBC, CNN, and even some on CBS/ABC/NBC. And of course, shows like THE VIEW. But when it's Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer, their peers are filled with "sorrow and heartbreak". Both the harasser and the harassed are pitied. And it becomes a 'teachable moment'. I just finished watching MSNBC's coverage of Lauer's firing, and they ended the segment somehow talking about Bill O'Reilly - and how much more worse he was because of the money he paid out.

What these self-righteous clowns need to grasp is - PIGS KNOW NOT PARTISANSHIP. They are everywhere.

All that said, I wonder if George Stephanopolous will make it a trio of male morning anchors to fall. You know there are other men out there wearing their $hitting pants, because they are $hitting their pants right now.

This is the media theme song these days....

Another One Bites The Dust

@censorshipsucks06 said:

And now Matt Lauer is gone. I can't help but notice the difference in coverage. When Bill O'Reilly and Roger Ailes went down, FOX NEWS was a 'haven for harassers' according to MSNBC, CNN, and even some on CBS/ABC/NBC. And of course, shows like THE VIEW. But when it's Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer, their peers are filled with "sorrow and heartbreak". Both the harasser and the harassed are pitied. And it becomes a 'teachable moment'. I just finished watching MSNBC's coverage of Lauer's firing, and they ended the segment somehow talking about Bill O'Reilly - and how much more worse he was because of the money he paid out.

What these self-righteous clowns need to grasp is - PIGS KNOW NOT PARTISANSHIP. They are everywhere.

All that said, I wonder if George Stephanopolous will make it a trio of male morning anchors to fall. You know there are other men out there wearing their $hitting pants, because they are $hitting their pants right now.

This is the media theme song these days....

Another One Bites The Dust

Well, that's what happens when you throw stones in glass houses. People have inherent biases, we don't react with the same anger when our friends and colleagues screw up.

They should have treated these situations with impartiality from the start so they don't look ridiculous when it happens in their own back yard.

BTW Jeremy Piven is in hot water too, they cancelled his show.

Really? I had not heard that about Piven. It's getting tough to keep up with all these accusations and firings.

Yeah, The View and MSNBC were leading the charge against Fox News, screaming about the "Fox News Culture". I told my wife when that started after O'Reilly fell that sooner or later it would happen at another network and it would be covered differently. Gone will be the 'culture' comments, and it will be shock and disbelief. I couldn't have imagined this in a million years.

But after you wrote that about Piven, I just looked now and saw his show was canceled. Another problem here is that it not only impacts Piven, or Rose. When those shows go away, so do the 100's of jobs that it takes to make, write, and produce those shows. It's sad that there are even MORE victims now because of these cancellations.

We will see if Conyers can survive. I heard he's losing support within The Black Caucus. If that's the case, he's doomed. Because if they hang him out to dry, the rest of the Democrats will feel free to pick at his bones. Personally, I hope Conyers goes. Here in Metro Detroit, we all know he's a freaking crook, just like his convicted wife. He's just so well insulated, he thinks he can do whatever he wants and nothing will happen.

The last place actual consequences will be seen is in Washington D.C.. Had that picture of Franken not surfaced, I guarantee you he's not apologizing, but denying everything, and his supporters, both in the Senate and at home, would be defending him to the death. Same on the GOP side - but even most of them (except for Trump) have tossed Roy Moore out with the trash. I have a feeling if he wins, the GOP Leadership will block him being seated in the Senate. But in his case, there's clearly some fabrication going on. That yearbook 'signature' is as phony as a $3 bill. But I have no doubts he is guilty, even if someone manufactured some of the evidence. The GOP thinks so too, as they've cut off his money. But sometimes detractors can't leave the facts alone and have to fabricate stuff. Remember 60 Minutes II and how they produced the phony National Guard documents about Bush? When you have the facts on your side, just go with that. So many times people feel the need to embellish. And all that does is wreck their own credibility.

This is just insane how almost every other day, a big name falls.

And now we can add Garrison Keillor to the list . From Prairie Home Companion to Prairie Home Predator

@znexyish said:

And now we can add Garrison Keillor to the list . From Prairie Home Companion to Prairie Home Predator

I gotta admit, we saw a segment on CBS SUNDAY MORNING about Garrison Keillor. And I STILL didn't remember who he was. Never heard of this guy, so he'll be hard to miss. lol

@censorshipsucks06 said:

@znexyish said:

And now we can add Garrison Keillor to the list . From Prairie Home Companion to Prairie Home Predator

I gotta admit, we saw a segment on CBS SUNDAY MORNING about Garrison Keillor. And I STILL didn't remember who he was. Never heard of this guy, so he'll be hard to miss. lol

Picture a kindly old grandfather, sitting on a front porch rocking chair, talking about the "good old days". That's the image anyway. His claim is he went to pat a young woman on the back and somehow his hand slipped up her blouse.

Hey, it happens to me all the time.

I also read that he immediately apologized to the woman, and also sent her an email apology where she accepted it and stated not to even think about it again. This also happened some time ago.

If this is the ONLY thing Keillor is accused of, and he was terminated for THIS, I'd say we've officially gone overboard with this stuff. Because that can't in any way be compared to Matt Lauer having a button at his desk which locks his office door FROM THE INSIDE (unbelievable), and giving sex toy gifts to co-workers. Or Bill O'Reilly doing something that warranted a $32 million dollar payoff. But if it was a pattern of behavior from Keillor, than he too needed to go.

@censorshipsucks06 said:

I also read that he immediately apologized to the woman, and also sent her an email apology where she accepted it and stated not to even think about it again. This also happened some time ago.

If this is the ONLY thing Keillor is accused of, and he was terminated for THIS, I'd say we've officially gone overboard with this stuff. Because that can't in any way be compared to Matt Lauer having a button at his desk which locks his office door FROM THE INSIDE (unbelievable), and giving sex toy gifts to co-workers. Or Bill O'Reilly doing something that warranted a $32 million dollar payoff. But if it was a pattern of behavior from Keillor, than he too needed to go.

He probably has a book case that turns into a bed too, like some kind of deranged sexual bond villain. LOL

Now he wants(puts finger up to side of mouth like Dr Evil) THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, this week it was the politicians that took the hit in the form of John Conyers and Al Franken.

I'd have liked it if, during his Senate speech yesterday, he'd have started off with...

"Today, I'm here to talk about me, Al Franken." And then given that SNL smirk he used to give.

For those of you too young to remember, here's a youtube clip of the running skit he had on SNL back in the day...

Me - Al Franken

Don't forget Stuart Smalley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldAQ6Rh5ZI

[@FormerlyKnownAs]

Another Fallout in the wake of all this “inappropriate” behaviorness:

The Annual Office Holiday Party

It seems that many companies are choosing NOT to have a party this year.

Also, some companies that are still having parties have instituted a few changes (probably others changes as well)--but, you get the idea:

-- No mistletoe.

--No open bar.

--Doing away with alcoholic drinks.

--Where they do serve alcoholic drinks, issuing tickets limiting guests to two each.

---

I consider this a two-edge sword:

PLUS: Hopefully it will keep SOME idiots from acting like even bigger idiots.

MINUS: Will put a deep-hole in the economic pockets of businesses and regular folks who depend on that yearly holiday-trade boost.

I'm glad I'm essentially done with companies. Doing away with the Christmas Parties is just another example of how silly this nation is becoming. No open bar, or doing away with alcoholic drinks altogether? Why? Because someone MIGHT do something? Why don't we close down all offices and work from home? That way nobody is ever in a position to touch another human.

There needs to be some degrees put on this hysteria. This nation has a real problem. And that is, whenever something makes it's way into the mainstream media - the nation goes berserk and over-reacts to everything. And what that does is dilutes real instances of harassment.
I read an article where some woman wrote "Finally - we are at the time and place in society where grouping, harassing, and** asking women out **at work is no longer tolerated!".

WAIT - Now men can't ask women OUT that they work with? This is out of control. I'd have never married my wife - who I met at work. Seriously - there's going to be a lot less people getting laid if they aren't allowed to date co-workers. I wrote back to this lunatic that asking someone out on a date that you work with is NOT harassment. And no, I don't give a damn if that person is an equal or a subordinate. You can ask someone out. If there is continual pressure, or negative repercussions because the answer was no, THEN there's a problem. But the answer isn't to expect the workplace to become a Monk/Nun Den.

I pity the next generation that has to have llamas and ponies brought into their college safe spaces to get them through the anxiety of final exam week. Or the office where nobody is allowed to ask anyone out. Or the office where there's no social parties because of what someone MIGHT do.

I'm not advocating a return to a 1950's American where offices were like Mad Men. But come on - from college campuses to work places, this country is slowly going nuts.

Seems like the only way to find out if you can "safely" ask someone out, is to ask them if you could ask them out. But what if they find THAT offensive/threatening/whatever?