Yeah, I call that part of the curse of the tv show format. It's expected, or at least I do anyway. That's why I don't just rate on TMDB I use trakt- which allows you to rate individual episodes and seasons (as well as the series overall).

Which is why I always prefer tv shows that I love to not be successful and to get cancelled. Better to have a bit of an abrupt ending but stay an amazing series rather than drag on and end sourly. Although its somewhat different for anthology series...

I'm not sure but maybe this is more of a modern problem, I think with too much influence of the general public/viewers affecting the production and people in a show. There are other downsides that I attribute to "the curse of the tv show format" but the general denigration of a tv show across its seasons is one of them.

I think the only real drop off in quality was the most recent season. And that's because they were changing tact to more arty, character studies than the more sensationist, tightly plotted crowd-pleasers we're used to. And I'm ok with having a bit of a change to keep things interesting. As long as it doesn't stay this way.

I guess you could say season 3 was slightly better than season 4 but the difference was marginal and debatable. Not enough to say the show is in sharp decline.

@JustinJackFlash said:

And that's because they were changing tact to more arty, character studies than the more sensationist, tightly plotted crowd-pleasers we're used to.

To be fair: In my view when BM hit Netflix it was genre-defining. It took a peek just over the horizon of where our technology is heading then applied dystopian visions of how this could ruin our humanity. As the seasons have progressed (especially S3 S4 & now even moreso S4 S5), it seems to me they have lost their technological edge and have degenerated to more blasé tropes of our social constructs. It sounds like you define this as "character studies" (which I quite enjoy TBH), but if that is the case, without the BM technology focus this is genre departing...a genre they had uniquely created. We can agree to disagree. Also, this is all from memory (which is worse that subjective opining), but I'm not going to waste my time rewatching to see if my theory holds. I just know that after S3 S4--and now S4 S5--I have an overwhelming desire to re-rate my overall opinion of the series. Nothing tragic, just an urge. Here's to hoping they stun us with a recovery!

@Daddie0 said:

@JustinJackFlash said:

And that's because they were changing tact to more arty, character studies than the more sensationist, tightly plotted crowd-pleasers we're used to.

As the seasons have progressed (especially S3 & now even moreso S4), it seems to me they have lost their technological edge and have degenerated to more blasé tropes of our social constructs.

I was gonna make a similar comment but couldn't come up with how best to describe my thoughts...I agree, I actually really enjoy "character studies" in film and tv, probably more than the average film & tv consumer but I don't feel like season 4 (I meant season 5) even did that very well at all. In season 4 5 I feel like they failed to do what they are the best at and just settled for being mediocre at something less niche.

EDIT: mediocre might be a bit harsh...season 45's "character studies" are still good tv.

Having said that since BM is an anthology series I don't think the high opinion I have of its first three seasons will truly be affected negatively by future not-so-great seasons (at least not too much); it's not like the characters and storylines carry over from season to season! Anyway, since each episode is a separate movie my opinion of each episode (and each season) can be easily separated from each other. :)

@Daddie0 said:

As the seasons have progressed (especially S3 & now even moreso S4), it seems to me they have lost their technological edge and have degenerated to more blasé tropes of our social constructs. It sounds like you define this as "character studies"

I meant just the most recent season when I said it changed tact to character studies: Season 5. They were clearly going for something a bit different. All the previous seasons, seasons 1,2,3 and 4, are all what I'm describing as tightly plotted, sensationist, crowd pleasers. Season 5 is not as good but I was just saying I appreciated they were changing things up a bit, especially with Bandersnatch too. As you describe the show as initially "genre defining" then that's the exact reason it shouldn't stay the same.

In my view when BM hit Netflix it was genre-defining. It took a peek just over the horizon of where our technology is heading then applied dystopian visions of how this could ruin our humanity.

As the seasons have progressed (especially S3 & now even moreso S4), it seems to me they have lost their technological edge and have degenerated to more blasé tropes of our social constructs.

I didn't realise you were including S3 as part of the shows decline too. Myself I saw things as pretty much the opposite. I saw S3 and S4 as the shows peak and S3 as when the show really took off. I didn't dislike S1 and S2 but my problems with them were that they relied on "blasé tropes". Fifteen Million Merits took the Orwellian 1984 template while White Bear took the whole familiar -waking up with no memory and not knowing what's going on- mystery concept and crossed it with The Running Man.

Seasons 3 and 4 really started to show how "technology could ruin our humanity". Nosedive being the perfect example. It's showing exactly where social media is taking us. And I found that far more terrifying. Not because it's something that may happen in the future but because it's something that probably will happen. Arkangel was another strong example of something I fear will probably become a reality.

On the flipside: Fifteen Million Merits- all of us trapped in some obscure place, running on treadmills non-stop for credits? White Bear- putting criminals through violent game shows? I think these scenarios are pretty far fetched. These first too seasons seem to be less about "where our technology is heading" and more in line with where our "social constructs" are taking us. FMM and WB are commenting more about talent shows and reality tv rather than it's technological aspects. The National Anthem and The Waldo Moment are about politics and media.

And I didn't think there was anything in those first too seasons that were as superb as San Junipero. An episode that opted to show how technology could do something positive. And thus demonstrated how the show was willing to play with it's formula and mix things up.

My final comment is probably not going to be a popular one, but I think that some of the grumbles about S3 and 4 stem subconsciously from the stigma of Americanizing a show and a purist mentality. But in the case of Black Mirror I think that it's Americanisation and higher budget have actually made it better. And bear in mind I am British, so I'm not just being xenophobic.

I too think Nosedive is one of the show's best episodes. SPOILER in the crossed out paragraph (I just realized the OP maybe hasnt watched season 5/maybe is talking about season 1 to 4 making them less excited about season 5- that this thread isn't about season 5)

However my problem with season 5 is just the writing and acting often didn't seem believable (I don't mean believable as in how realistic it is/could happen in the real world's future). And I probably would put it down to the Americanizing of the show. I just find typical American mainstream movies/shows cheesy/insincere or something. I'm mostly talking about episode 1 and 3 of season 5 (not episode 2). I don't feel like the first episode went into the relationship between the two men very deeply, I don't feel like they fully committed to telling the story. The third episode just completely changed tone halfway through and became a corny lighthearted action-comedy, I think the story would have had more impact if they kept it more serious and kept the stakes high.

(I just realised in my previous comment I said "season 4" when I meant season 5).

Also, my favorite episode of Black Mirror is Be Right Back; the first episode of season 2 (I prefer over San Junipero).

@tmdb24407783 said:

I too think Nosedive is one of the show's best episodes. However my problem with season 5 is just the writing and acting often didn't seem believable (I don't mean believable as in how realistic it is/could happen in the real world's future). And I probably would put it down to the Americanizing of the show. I just find typical American mainstream movies/shows cheesy/insincere or something. I'm mostly talking about episode 1 and 3 of season 5 (not episode 2). I don't feel like the first episode went into the relationship between the two men very deeply, I don't feel like they fully committed to telling the story. The third episode just completely changed tone halfway through and became a corny lighthearted action-comedy, I think the story would have had more impact if they kept it more serious and kept the stakes high.

(I just realised in my previous comment I said "season 4" when I meant season 5).

Also, my favorite episode of Black Mirror is Be Right Back; the first episode of season 2 (I prefer over San Junipero).

Yeah, like I said before I don't think Season 5 was particularly great. Episode 3 did get pretty silly. But at the same time it showed the side of a pop star (the kind of celebrity that many, me included, regard with disdain) you wouldn't really think about. A person trapped by the the sanitized image they've created. And I wouldn't be surprised if Miley Cyrus really is like that. She's released weird, indie tunes before, clearly trying to break away from her bubbegum pop image. I'm guessing she really likes alternative music and hates the music she creates. And that's why she agreed to do the Black Mirror episode.

@JustinJackFlash said:

@tmdb24407783 said:

I too think Nosedive is one of the show's best episodes. However my problem with season 5 is just the writing and acting often didn't seem believable (I don't mean believable as in how realistic it is/could happen in the real world's future). And I probably would put it down to the Americanizing of the show. I just find typical American mainstream movies/shows cheesy/insincere or something. I'm mostly talking about episode 1 and 3 of season 5 (not episode 2). I don't feel like the first episode went into the relationship between the two men very deeply, I don't feel like they fully committed to telling the story. The third episode just completely changed tone halfway through and became a corny lighthearted action-comedy, I think the story would have had more impact if they kept it more serious and kept the stakes high.

(I just realised in my previous comment I said "season 4" when I meant season 5).

Also, my favorite episode of Black Mirror is Be Right Back; the first episode of season 2 (I prefer over San Junipero).

Yeah, like I said before I don't think Season 5 was particularly great. Episode 3 did get pretty silly. But at the same time it showed the side of a pop star (the kind of celebrity that many, me included, regard with disdain) you wouldn't really think about. A person trapped by the the sanitized image they've created. And I wouldn't be surprised if Miley Cyrus really is like that. She's released weird, indie tunes before, clearly trying to break away from her bubbegum pop image. I'm guessing she really likes alternative music and hates the music she creates. And that's why she agreed to do the Black Mirror episode.

That's why I was so disappointed. it's the exact kind of storyline that I would come up with, that vibes with me, that I even relate to. One that I would appreciate and love if done well. To me, its such an interesting story, lots of interesting things about it, but the writers (or whoever) just took the easy way out halfway through the script and gave up on properly telling that interesting story to shoehorn in some "Americanization" and "fun". They wanted to have their cake and eat it too or something; they wanted to be dark and impactful like Black Mirror but also (for lack of better words) flashy and casual like a Superhero action-comedy blockbuster (and it didn't work- for me).

OK, I'm an idiot. In my posts above I meant S4 & S5 rather than S3 & S4. I just mispoke...thanks for causing me to realize my error @tmdb24407783 and @JustinJackFlash ! (I went ahead and made the corrections above.) :)

@JustinJackFlash said:

My final comment is probably not going to be a popular one, but I think that some of the grumbles about S3 and 4 stem subconsciously from the stigma of Americanizing a show and a purist mentality. But in the case of Black Mirror I think that it's Americanisation and higher budget have actually made it better. And bear in mind I am British, so I'm not just being xenophobic.

I agree with this sentiment though...part of what I enjoyed about the early season is it wasn't yet Americanized (or perhaps more accurately globalized/universalized?). That could be part of my disappointment with S4. But S5 was just bad. I mean, for me and others in my circle who watched it...bad.

@tmdb24407783 said:

(I just realized the OP maybe hasnt watched season 5/maybe is talking about season 1 to 4 making them less excited about season 5- that this thread isn't about season 5)

Just to clarify: I had watched S5 before posting this, and this thread was about S5 and beyond (but here's to hoping they get better not worse!).

Also, your point about it being an anthology/episodic series rather than a typical serialized show does give it ample room for recovery/reorientation...if the creators so desire. Here's to hoping!

@JustinJackFlash said:

@tmdb24407783 said:

he third episode just completely changed tone halfway through and became a corny lighthearted action-comedy, I think the story would have had more impact if they kept it more serious and kept the stakes high.

Episode 3 did get pretty silly. But at the same time it showed the side of a pop star (the kind of celebrity that many, me included, regard with disdain) you wouldn't really think about. A person trapped by the the sanitized image they've created. And I wouldn't be surprised if Miley Cyrus really is like that. She's released weird, indie tunes before, clearly trying to break away from her bubbegum pop image. I'm guessing she really likes alternative music and hates the music she creates. And that's why she agreed to do the Black Mirror episode.

@JustinJackFlash, you just hit on something that turned me off about S5E3: it was a little too self-aware. It was like Miley Cyrus was winking and nodding at the camera. Plus...esh...just some painful acting moments. The concept of having her 'person' sold through a mass marketing machine was the only interesting concept to me. At the end it came off like an after-school-special.

Black Mirror's first episodes and seasons were great, last ones are so so, but it also depends on episodes. Some so so episodes where in early seasons too. We can't judge Black Mirror in general as every episode is unique. TWD started well, but it got prolonged, transformed into cheap shooting blockbuster with dumb emotional moments. After Governor era they messed it up and prolonged unnecessarily.

@Ditendra said:

Black Mirror's first episodes and seasons were great, last ones are so so, but it also depends on episodes. Some so so episodes where in early seasons too. We can't judge Black Mirror in general as every episode is unique.

I would agree, it's more about individual episodes. Even though I don't agree that the first seasons were better.

TWD started well, but it got prolonged, transformed into cheap shooting blockbuster with dumb emotional moments. After Governor era they messed it up and prolonged unnecessarily.

I'd say TWD had the same kind of issues in it's early days too. Most of season 2 was full of filler as they faffed about on the farm waiting for something to happen. I've always seen TWD as being prolonged, one episode of nothing happening following another but with occasional periods where it suddenly became superb. Those superb episodes always kept me going. I eventually gave up because it had gotten to the state where even when something was happening it still felt like nothing was happening.

But yeah, the Governor era was definitely the show at it's best.

@Ditendra & @JustinJackFlash

I agree with you which is why I made this post. The early seasons were SO GOOD in my opinion, but as new seasons drop they...drop? Anyway, I try to rate each episode in a series as this is a known problem (TWD is a great example). Actually, it would be kind of interesting if TMDB would average individual ep ratings to influence overall ratings, but I'm sure this is asking too much. This type of cumulative score would then correct over time, either to the good or bad.

Of course, overall I'm just disappointed that a great show has become average.