@chrundle said:

Hey SuperBoy, glad you finally decided this was worth a smidgen of your attention again, but unfortunately it seems like you're still deflecting instead of acknowledging the actual issue. Since my last reply was buried under a whopping 11 or so replies, you probably didn't read it, but I'm going to repost it, since I still think that it's the most concise post in this thread so far demonstrating how little sense your rules actually make.

You enforce your decision by stating "The rules are designed to respect the studio's creative decisions in numbering the first episode of Season 2 as Episode #13, indicating they want it to be seen as a single, continuous season of television" while plugging your ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" whenever it's pointed out how the studio has referred to the 2nd Season as such, labelling it as Season 2 on their website and even in the opening credits among other places, because those creative decisions don't fit your rigid and nonsensical rules. The decisions you decide are worth respecting are entirely at the whim of which decisions support your prior decisions, and any that don't are disregarded as irrelevant to the discussion.

If you really cared about making sure your database respects the decision of continuously numbered episodes as much as you claim, I would think you would have prioritized correcting the breadth of anime on your database that are divided into seasons despite being continuously numbered - you mentioned that there was only one guy who can do it, but given your intense commitment to respecting the creative decision of continuously numbering episodes, you'd think it would be a top priority to make sure that Attack on Titan is listed as one continuous season as the creators intended (while, of course, ignoring the constant seasonal breaks and branding, such as Attack on Titan: The Final Season or the big message on the official website stating "Seasons 1-3 are now available on all streaming sites"). I mean, otherwise, if it's not a big deal, then why can't the rules be adjusted, or exceptions be made when the studio clearly considers it to be an individual season? Get on it, Travis, this is a really big deal with zero room for flexibility!!!!

I'll also reiterate that your own Anime Guidelines are contradictory.

Original Order

The main guidelines for animes are the same as with any other type of series. Our goal is to replicate how the TV series were originally released on their original network.

My understanding of this is that your main goal is to make sure it's reflected on the database as it was released - naturally, shows like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z should be presented as you are trying to present Solo Leveling - they should not only be separate show entries, but one continuous season for each - this makes sense, given they were presented with separate titles and as separate shows, despite airing only a week apart, but also that there were no breaks and the shows both aired continuously from start to finish, as was how most anime was produced at this time.

On the other hand, the episode numbering has no impact on how the show was released - Yes, S2E1 of Solo Leveling is listed as Episode #13, however was released months after the conclusion of season 1, and was released under the banner and title of Solo Leveling Season 2. Your decision on this matter is contradicting what your anime guidelines state to be the guidelines goal. It didn't seem to follow any of the Cour formats you list, instead following more like the Western seasonal release schedule, airing during the Jan - Mar Cour and not returning until the same time the following year, so it wouldn't make sense to insist that it is one continuous season divided up by Cours - and if we can call skipping 3 Cours in a row "Split Cour", then we can call skipping 8 Cours before return "Split Cour", and at that point the term has lost all meaning, making that rule useless and always in favour of listing anime as a single season no matter what.

On another note, after reviewing these rules more closely, you've gotta merge Naruto and Naruto Shippūden as per the rules regarding "Sequel series" while you're taking care of all the other continuously numbered anime. Also, everything I said above about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z should be ignored, those have to be one series because Z is a direct continuation. (If you haven't noticed yet, your rules are nonsensical and self-contradicting, and need serious adjusting. This issue is far from resolved.)

Has it ever been considered that maybe the fact that S2E1 of Solo Leveling is listed as Episode 13 is simply because that is how things are typically done in Japan, and while many anime have more recently embraced the Seasonal release model of the west, they prefer to ensure that it's clear what number of the overall episode of a series is for any given episode in a season?

I do just find it funny how a studio can say "This is Season 2. We took nearly a full year between the end of Season 1 and the start of Season 2. Our website lists it as Season 2. The intro lists it as Season 2. It has a special subtitle to distinguish it from Season 1 as another, distinct chunk of the story. But our website it going to list the first episode of this second season as the 13th overall episode so that it's place in the series is clear" and you guys just go "NONE OF THAT MATTERS EXCEPT FOR THAT SMALL INSIGNIFICANT DETAIL AT THE END THAT PROVES OUR POINT AND JUSTIFIES OUR STUBBORNNESS"

---

Addendum - previously in this thread, you guys previously seemed absolutely dumbfounded in at how you could possibly reconcile the fact that there are multiple seasons, but Season 2 Episode 1 is listed as Episode #13, acting as if this was some kind of impossible task we were asking of you -

"Per the regular TV guidelines, the first episode of a season is always episode 1 and nothing else. How can the first episode of "Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow-" be the 13th episode of the season if it's the first episode of the season?"

"And once again, TV anime entries are not exempt from the regular TV guidelines, which say the first episode of a season is always episode 1. Episode #13 can't be the first episode of a season if it's episode #13."

I would like to direct your attention to Hunter x Hunter, where it's quite literally a non-issue and you guys have already accomplished this. Season 2 of Hunter x Hunter spans episode #63 - #136. This is doable, it's been done, you guys are just being insanely weird about this for seemingly no reason. I'm sure that literally nobody has ever gone in Season 2 of Hunter x Hunter and assumed that Season 2 alone had 136 episodes and that the database was missing 62 of them.

We're begging you, amend the rules - they are backwards, self contradictory, and there has not been a single user of your site that has defended them, only the mod team, and it's seemingly out of nothing but stubbornness as opposed to a desire to actually have the site function efficiently. This entire thread only exists because of ego

Hi superboy and the rest of the mod team,

Still awaiting a response. Thank you!

@chrundle said:

Hey SuperBoy, glad you finally decided this was worth a smidgen of your attention again, but unfortunately it seems like you're still deflecting instead of acknowledging the actual issue. Since my last reply was buried under a whopping 11 or so replies, you probably didn't read it, but I'm going to repost it, since I still think that it's the most concise post in this thread so far demonstrating how little sense your rules actually make.

You enforce your decision by stating "The rules are designed to respect the studio's creative decisions in numbering the first episode of Season 2 as Episode #13, indicating they want it to be seen as a single, continuous season of television" while plugging your ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" whenever it's pointed out how the studio has referred to the 2nd Season as such, labelling it as Season 2 on their website and even in the opening credits among other places, because those creative decisions don't fit your rigid and nonsensical rules. The decisions you decide are worth respecting are entirely at the whim of which decisions support your prior decisions, and any that don't are disregarded as irrelevant to the discussion.

It's not actually a second season, it's a sequel series / second part that has "season 2" in the title but continues from the numbering of the first series. The anime guidelines mention what to do with sequel series and anime released in two or more parts:

• Sequels series (i.e. a direct continuation of the story) are added within the same entry. When the episodes numbers are continuous, all episodes are added to the same season. When the episode count is restarted (i.e. the first episode is Episode 1), the new episodes are added as a new season.
• When a series is released in two or more parts, the new episodes should also be added to the same season when the episode number are continuous. Sometimes the production of new episodes is halted for a year or more.

If you really cared about making sure your database respects the decision of continuously numbered episodes as much as you claim, I would think you would have prioritized correcting the breadth of anime on your database that are divided into seasons despite being continuously numbered - you mentioned that there was only one guy who can do it, but given your intense commitment to respecting the creative decision of continuously numbering episodes, you'd think it would be a top priority to make sure that Attack on Titan is listed as one continuous season as the creators intended (while, of course, ignoring the constant seasonal breaks and branding, such as Attack on Titan: The Final Season or the big message on the official website stating "Seasons 1-3 are now available on all streaming sites"). I mean, otherwise, if it's not a big deal, then why can't the rules be adjusted, or exceptions be made when the studio clearly considers it to be an individual season? Get on it, Travis, this is a really big deal with zero room for flexibility!!!!

Travis is the only one that can automate the merges and he develops and maintains TMDB. Merging some anime entries maybe is not that big of a priority compared to continuously developing and maintaining TMDB and making sure it doesn't go down.

I'll also reiterate that your own Anime Guidelines are contradictory.

Original Order

The main guidelines for animes are the same as with any other type of series. Our goal is to replicate how the TV series were originally released on their original network.

My understanding of this is that your main goal is to make sure it's reflected on the database as it was released - naturally, shows like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z should be presented as you are trying to present Solo Leveling - they should not only be separate show entries, but one continuous season for each - this makes sense, given they were presented with separate titles and as separate shows, despite airing only a week apart, but also that there were no breaks and the shows both aired continuously from start to finish, as was how most anime was produced at this time.

On the other hand, the episode numbering has no impact on how the show was released - Yes, S2E1 of Solo Leveling is listed as Episode #13, however was released months after the conclusion of season 1, and was released under the banner and title of Solo Leveling Season 2. Your decision on this matter is contradicting what your anime guidelines state to be the guidelines goal. It didn't seem to follow any of the Cour formats you list, instead following more like the Western seasonal release schedule, airing during the Jan - Mar Cour and not returning until the same time the following year, so it wouldn't make sense to insist that it is one continuous season divided up by Cours - and if we can call skipping 3 Cours in a row "Split Cour", then we can call skipping 8 Cours before return "Split Cour", and at that point the term has lost all meaning, making that rule useless and always in favour of listing anime as a single season no matter what.

Solo Leveling is not split cour; Solo Leveling Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow- is either a sequel series or a second part. The anime guidelines mention what to do with sequel series and anime released in parts:

• Sequels series (i.e. a direct continuation of the story) are added within the same entry. When the episodes numbers are continuous, all episodes are added to the same season. When the episode count is restarted (i.e. the first episode is Episode 1), the new episodes are added as a new season.
• When a series is released in two or more parts, the new episodes should also be added to the same season when the episode number are continuous. Sometimes the production of new episodes is halted for a year or more.

On another note, after reviewing these rules more closely, you've gotta merge Naruto and Naruto Shippūden as per the rules regarding "Sequel series" while you're taking care of all the other continuously numbered anime.

Both Naruto and Naruto Shippuden are actually mentioned in the anime guidelines as examples of anime released in two or more parts. Naruto Shippuden is on our merge list and it'll be merged into the Naruto entry, where all 720 episodes will be listed in a single season.

Also, everything I said above about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z should be ignored, those have to be one series because Z is a direct continuation. (If you haven't noticed yet, your rules are nonsensical and self-contradicting, and need serious adjusting. This issue is far from resolved.)

Then please submit a report for it on either entry.

Has it ever been considered that maybe the fact that S2E1 of Solo Leveling is listed as Episode 13 is simply because that is how things are typically done in Japan, and while many anime have more recently embraced the Seasonal release model of the west, they prefer to ensure that it's clear what number of the overall episode of a series is for any given episode in a season?

Where are you getting that S02E01 is episode 13? According to the official website, the Season 2 tab starts with episode 13; episodes 1-12 don't appear to exist. And yes, it's been considered, that's why the anime guidelines have a "Should I add new episodes to the existing season, to a new season, or as a new series?" subsection.

I do just find it funny how a studio can say "This is Season 2. We took nearly a full year between the end of Season 1 and the start of Season 2. Our website lists it as Season 2. The intro lists it as Season 2. It has a special subtitle to distinguish it from Season 1 as another, distinct chunk of the story. But our website it going to list the first episode of this second season as the 13th overall episode so that it's place in the series is clear" and you guys just go "NONE OF THAT MATTERS EXCEPT FOR THAT SMALL INSIGNIFICANT DETAIL AT THE END THAT PROVES OUR POINT AND JUSTIFIES OUR STUBBORNNESS"

The studio can literally do whatever it wants and number it however it wants since it makes the show, but it decided to only use continuous numbers. If the studio wanted to restart the numbering from 1 and have that be the main numbering, with a separate overall number, it could've done that and we would've list the anime as the second season. We are simply copying the official website as best we can, and the website makes no mention of the first episode of Solo Leveling Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow- being numbered as S02E01; it's simply numbered as #13 in the Season 2 tab. But where are the first 12 episode of Season 2?

Addendum - previously in this thread, you guys previously seemed absolutely dumbfounded in at how you could possibly reconcile the fact that there are multiple seasons, but Season 2 Episode 1 is listed as Episode #13, acting as if this was some kind of impossible task we were asking of you -

"Per the regular TV guidelines, the first episode of a season is always episode 1 and nothing else. How can the first episode of "Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow-" be the 13th episode of the season if it's the first episode of the season?"

"And once again, TV anime entries are not exempt from the regular TV guidelines, which say the first episode of a season is always episode 1. Episode #13 can't be the first episode of a season if it's episode #13."

I would like to direct your attention to Hunter x Hunter, where it's quite literally a non-issue and you guys have already accomplished this. Season 2 of Hunter x Hunter spans episode #63 - #136.

The current Hunter x Hunter season split, including the episode numbers, is actually extremely wrong, just like Naruto's and Naruto Shippuden's. The seasons and episodes were either created incorrectly and no one bothered to report them or the entry was created before the anime guidelines existed. I couldn't tell you which reason since I joined the database in 2020 but the anime is already on the merge list and all episodes will be merged into a single season whenever Travis has the time.

This is doable, it's been done, you guys are just being insanely weird about this for seemingly no reason.

Yeah it can be done, technically speaking, but it actually can't be done because it's against the guidelines.

I'm sure that literally nobody has ever gone in Season 2 of Hunter x Hunter and assumed that Season 2 alone had 136 episodes and that the database was missing 62 of them.

Then I'm the only one.

There is no need to close this discussion. We are addressing a serious and debatable issue regarding your credibility and reliability as an "open source" database. Multiple individuals have pointed out a significant lack of consideration, and no statement has yet been issued by Travis. This is not a trivial matter. We unanimously agree that your policy on this issue is misguided and detrimental to the user experience. As the only public database adopting this approach, you seem convinced that your method is superior, despite the fact that, as a UX developer myself, I am certain most UX professionals would disagree. By proceeding with your planned full integration, you risk undermining your own success, potentially driving many users to alternative APIs.

Why ignore our detailed explanations that this policy needs revision? A simple adjustment to a single line of code could resolve the issue and satisfy the majority (with the possible exception of Travis). You have acknowledged that significant work remains before Travis implements the full integration. Given this, why burden yourselves further, especially when numerous voices are clearly stating that this is not a sound decision? I strongly recommend abandoning this integration project entirely.

Thank you.

This^ Mods just keep defending the guidelines, but ignore our wish for changing the rules. Why does this need to be so difficult?

Both Naruto and Naruto Shippuden are actually mentioned in the anime guidelines as examples of anime released in two or more parts. Naruto Shippuden is on our merge list and it'll be merged into the Naruto entry, where all 720 episodes will be listed in a single season.

Jesus. I give up. If that's actually your plan (thank God "plan" means "when Travis gets around to it in 8-11 years) then you guys are more delusional than I thought. You guys genuinely think that's the best course of action? One 720-episode season with absolutely no way to find what you're looking for without sifting through hundreds of episodes, despite them otherwise being clearly defined and easily navigable on every other platform? In what world does that make your database an effective one?

This website sucks for TV, lmao.